Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye (General)

by Bootroom, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 11:37 (42 days ago)

Hi Anyone can help me I would be grateful !

I have very scant information regarding my paternal grandfather except that he was born unknown location in 18/4/1894, in WW1 he was in the RND, and was based at Crystal Palace from 1916. I have his Naval Sea Service Record when he signed up,1914, listing his next of kin as his Mother, Esther Williams, and the address of Oxford Cottage, Greytree, Ross On Wye Herefordshire, but I cannot locate that, any further link to Esther or whether he was an only child, who his Father was etc.


All I have is one photo of him, presumably 1914 -1918 in his Naval Uniform. He was a Bugler and AB Seaman

I have been looking to get back further to trace if I have any living relatives in that region.

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by probinson @, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 12:20 (42 days ago) @ Bootroom

Greytree is on the north side of Ross. It's shown on Google maps.

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by Bootroom, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 19:53 (42 days ago) @ probinson

I did look to find Greytree Street but that was all, ( Apple Maps ) and no sign of Oxford Cottage - assume demolished or developed etc, thanks though for the input

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by shepway @, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 20:09 (42 days ago) @ Bootroom

A Google Search result indicates that the property exists at Second Avenue, Greytree, Ross on Wye:
https://bit.ly/2nnM5Gb

Mike

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by cmfenton @, Ferndown, Dorset, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 12:44 (42 days ago) @ Bootroom

There is an entry in the Parish Records of a baptism in Ross-on-Wye which fits your other details, including date of birth.

Year: 1894
Month: May
Day: 20
Parents_Surname: WILLIAMS
Child_Forenames: Henry Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: John Frederick
Mothers_Forenames: Esther
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: New Street
Occupation: Blacksmith
Officiating_Minister: E H W Ingram Rector
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: [born] 18/4/94
Notes:
Register_Reference: BW 14/1
Page_Number: 51
Parish_Chapel: Ross on Wye

And also their marriage:

Year: 1893
Month: Jul
Day: 15
Grooms_Surname: WILLIAMS
Grooms_Forenames: John Frederick
Grooms_Age: 35
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation: Blacksmith
Grooms_Residence: New S[tree]t Ross
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Williams (deceased)
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Blacksmith
Brides_Surname: NEVILLE
Brides_Forenames: Esther
Brides_Age: 34
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Rudhall Ross
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Neville
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Henry
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Gardener
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Alfred Taylor
Witness_2: Edith Reece

As I know from personal experience Williams is a common name and although I have Ross based Williams in my family tree I don't at present see a connection.
This gives you some more names to work with thogh.
Good luck,

Regards

-Colin

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by Bootroom, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 20:20 (42 days ago) @ cmfenton

Fantastic Colin, I am very grateful for the information provided ! Starting to build a picture now.

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by probinson @, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 12:45 (42 days ago) @ Bootroom

There's a baptism record in the PRs...

Record_ID: 454636
Entry_Number: 404
Year: 1894
Month: May
Day: 20
Parents_Surname: WILLIAMS
Child_Forenames: Henry Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: John Frederick
Mothers_Forenames: Esther
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: New Street
Occupation: Blacksmith
Officiating_Minister: E H W Ingram Rector
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: [born] 18/4/94
Notes:
Register_Reference: BW 14/1
Page_Number: 51
Parish_Chapel: Ross on Wye
Soundex: W452

There's also a 1901 census record that shows a possible matching family living in Myrthyr Tydfil.

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by shepway @, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 13:06 (42 days ago) @ Bootroom

Marriage Records tells us that John Frederick was a Widower.
He can be found in the 1891 Census living in Ross on Wye and his birthplace is given as Hay on Wye.

There is an Ester Williams living with Grandparents at Greytree in the 1911 Census:
Name Relation to Head Birth Date Age Gender Marital Status Years Married Occupation Birth Place Address
Henry Neville Head 1833 78 Male Married None Pensioner Gardner Oxford Oxford Cottage, Grey Tree, Ross
Sarah Neville Wife 1831 80 Female Married 53 Oxford Oxford Cottage, Grey Tree, Ross
Ester Williams Grand Daughter 1896 15 Female Single None Ross, Herefordshire, England Oxford Cottage, Grey Tree, Ross

Unable to trace Esther's birth unless it is:
Births Jun 1895
Williams Sarah Esther A Ross 6a 452
but GRO states mother's maiden name is Williams

A search of births to John Williams and Esther Neville at GRO online produces this sibling:
WILLIAMS, FREDERICK ANDREW NEVILLE
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in ROSS Volume 06A Page 450

There is a possible match for Frederick A in the 1911 Census - Tyne Training Ship "Wellesley", River Tyne, North Shields

Mike

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by shepway @, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 13:18 (42 days ago) @ shepway

Frederick Andrew died in 1913 and is buried at Ross on Wye:

Name: Frederick A Williams
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Registration Year: 1913
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 16
Registration district: Ross
Inferred County: Herefordshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 493

Year: 1913
Month: Sep
Day: 2
Surname: WILLIAMS
Forenames: Frederick Andrew
Residence: Workhouse Infirmary
Age_at_death: 16
Officiating_Minister: L P Jones Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: BW14/21
Page_No: 37
Parish_Chapel: Ross on Wye

Mike

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by MPGriffiths @, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 16:41 (42 days ago) @ shepway

Forest of Dean records

Burial 23 December 1905

Esther WILLIAMS aged 47

residence: Oxford Cottage Greytree

Ross on Wye

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by MPGriffiths @, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 16:53 (42 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

?

1861 Census, Alevescot, Bradwell Oxfordshire

Henry NEVILLE - 28 - Groom - all born Oxfordshire
Sarah - 31
Esther - 2

and

1881 Census

Herefordshire, Weston Under Penyard

Radhill House

Esther NEVILLE - 22 - Parlour Maid - born Oxfordshire

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by Bootroom, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 21:31 (42 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

I don't think this can be my Great Grandmother as in 1914 she is listed as Next of Kin to my Grandfather in his Sea Service Records and curiously at the address of Oxford Cottage Grey Tree Ross - so that's a mystery

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by Bootroom, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 21:59 (42 days ago) @ Bootroom

But then again I think you are right !

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 20:06 (42 days ago) @ shepway

The training ship looks to be a good shot.

BNA Ross Gazette - Thursday 28 December 1905

DEATHS

WILLIAMS. December 20, at Greytree, Ross, Esther, wife of Frederick Williams, aged 47 years.

After that it looks as though John Frederick and his two sons ended up in the workhouse,

BNA Ross Gazette - Thursday 31 May 1906

ROSS BOARD OF GUARDIANS

THE TWO WILLIAMS BOYS TO BE SENT TO A TRAINING SHIP

At the previous meeting, the Board had considered the question of sending two boys named Williams, (sons of a Ross blacksmith, who is also in the house) to a training ship in order to give them a good start in life. To this end, several benevolent ladies and gentlemen in the Ross district had offered to assist by giving annual donations towards the cost, but as these subscriptions were not sufficient to meet the difference between the cost of the boys on board ship and what would otherwise be the expense of their maintenance in the house, the matter had been deferred for the Finance Committee to report, and also see whether any additional outside subscriptions could be obtained.

Mr. COOPER, in presenting the report of the committee, said the boy Frederick Williams, being only nine years of age, would have to be provided for if sent away as suggested, for seven years. The cost of his maintenance in the auxiliary home to the " Wellesley" training ship till he was 12 would be 6s. per week, and then there would be the cost of his maintenance on the training ship for four years at 7s, 6d. per week, together with the cost of an outfit, which would bring the total expense for Frederick to £128. The other boy Harry was 12 years of age, and four years on the training ship with outfit would come to £81 10s, or a total for the two boys of £210. The maintenance of the two boys in the house at 6s. per week would be—for Frederick, seven years, £91; for Harry, four years, £52; total, £143. The difference between keeping the boys in the house and sending them to a training ship would be £67. But certain benevolent people had kindly undertaken to pay £8 a year, or a total of £56, towards the cost, and another lady had promised to make up the £11 by seven payments of £1 11s. 5d. a year. If the Guardians accepted the present proposal, there would be no additional cost to the rates, and with the assistance of these generous people, they would be giving the boys a good start in life and make them respectable members of society. If they stayed in the house they would always have the associations of the place hanging round them, and possibly might become a burden to the rates again.

Mr. DAMPIER : Won't the father be able to take the boys out of the house and from our care ?

Mr. COOPER said the committee did not think there was much chance of that. The father, however, was willing to sign an undertaking offering no objection to the Board adopting the boys and sending them to a training ship, and if he were successful in obtaining employment, he also undertook to contribute a reasonable sum towards their maintenance. It had been suggested at the previous meeting that the grandfather of the boys on the mother's side should do something for them, but he was already looking after a third grandchild, and the committee, having inquired into his means, did not think that any more could be expected of him, The committee were unanimous in recommending the Board to send the boys to the " Wellesley " training ship, and he proposed that it be done. Mr. DAMPIER seconded. …………………………………………………………………

[followed by a discussion about obtaining guarantees from the benefactors and the implications of the decision for other boys in their care]

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by Bootroom, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 21:39 (42 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Wow what a find!
How sad !
The third grand child it would appear then could be the young Ester or Ester born I presume in 1896 - although its showing that there were only two siblings born to the marriage of my great grandparents.

If the presumed death of Esther being the mother if so in 1905 lead the Williams Boys into being put up for transfer to the Training Ship Wellesley makes sense, but then the Naval Sea Service Document of 1914 still lists her as being the next of Kin at that address..

Maybe he did not state it was his Grandmother, or maybe it was his sister ?

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by Bootroom, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 20:25 (42 days ago) @ shepway

Thanks -grateful - In terms of Tyneside Training Ship my Grandfather joined the RND from Tyneside as his serial number indicated he was from that region and joined the Collingwood Battalion, so the link to his sibling Frederick Andrew suggests that he also went that way, but then he is seen to have died in the Workhouse Infirmary aged just 16 but elsewhere, so a bit confusing

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by Bootroom, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 22:35 (42 days ago) @ Bootroom

To everyone that has given their time to contribute today to this I am so amazed and thanks for this !

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 22:53 (42 days ago) @ Bootroom

Maybe this didn’t help John Frederick’s ability to obtain work?

Gloucestershire Echo - Monday 05 December 1904

£50 FOR A BROKEN LEG.

John Frederick Williams, blacksmith, Ross, sued his employer, C. J. Harris, blacksmith, of the same place, at Ross County Court, on Saturday, for damages under the Employers’ Liability Act of 1880. Plaintiff was shoeing a horse, when the animal knocked him down and broke one of his legs. Defendant now offered £5O in settlement, and this was accepted.

[£50 in 1904 would be worth about £4000 today]

Tracing my Grandfather Henry Thomas Williams of Ross On Wye

by Bootroom, Thursday, August 09, 2018, 23:33 (42 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Amazed !
Thank you !!

I have been looking at the Training Ship Wellesley on line - maybe some source there

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